02/16/2005 01:00 PM House RESOURCES
| Audio | Topic |
|---|---|
| Start | |
| Overview: Enstar Natural Gas Company | |
| HB107 | |
| HB130 | |
| Adjourn |
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
| += | HB 130 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| + | SJR 2 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| = | HB 107 | ||
ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE
HOUSE RESOURCES STANDING COMMITTEE
February 16, 2005
1:05 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Representative Jay Ramras, Co-Chair
Representative Ralph Samuels, Co-Chair
Representative Jim Elkins
Representative Carl Gatto
Representative Gabrielle LeDoux
Representative Kurt Olson
Representative Paul Seaton
Representative Harry Crawford
Representative Mary Kapsner
MEMBERS ABSENT
All members present
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
SENATE JOINT RESOLUTION NO. 2
Urging the United States Congress to pass legislation to open
the coastal plain of the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge,
Alaska, to oil and gas exploration, development, and production.
- MOVED SJR 2 OUT OF COMMITTEE
OVERVIEW: ENSTAR NATURAL GAS COMPANY
- HEARD
HOUSE BILL NO. 107
"An Act providing for the award of full actual attorney fees and
costs to a person aggrieved by unlawful obstruction or hindrance
of hunting, fishing, or viewing of fish or game; amending Rules
79 and 82, Alaska Rules of Civil Procedure; and amending Rule
508, Alaska Rules of Appellate Procedure."
- MOVED CSHB 107 (RES) OUT OF COMMITTEE
HOUSE BILL NO. 130
"An Act granting certain state land to the University of Alaska
and establishing the university research forest; and providing
for an effective date."
- HEARD AND HELD
PREVIOUS COMMITTEE ACTION
BILL: SJR 2
SHORT TITLE: ENDORSING ANWR LEASING
SPONSOR(S): RESOURCES
01/11/05 (S) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS
01/11/05 (S) RES
01/26/05 (S) RES AT 3:30 PM BUTROVICH 205
01/26/05 (S) Moved SJR 2 Out of Committee
01/26/05 (S) MINUTE(RES)
01/27/05 (S) RES RPT 5DP 1DNP
01/27/05 (S) DP: WAGONER, STEVENS B, STEDMAN,
SEEKINS, DYSON
01/27/05 (S) DNP: ELTON
02/09/05 (S) TRANSMITTED TO (H)
02/09/05 (S) VERSION: SJR 2
02/14/05 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS
02/14/05 (H) RES
02/16/05 (H) RES AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 124
BILL: HB 107
SHORT TITLE: ATTY FEES: HUNTING/FISHING INTERFERENCE
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(s) RAMRAS
01/24/05 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS
01/24/05 (H) RES, JUD
02/02/05 (H) RES AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 124
02/02/05 (H) Heard & Held
02/02/05 (H) MINUTE(RES)
02/09/05 (H) RES AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 124
02/09/05 (H) Heard & Held
02/09/05 (H) MINUTE(RES)
02/16/05 (H) RES AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 124
BILL: HB 130
SHORT TITLE: UNIVERSITY LAND GRANT/STATE FOREST
SPONSOR(S): RULES BY REQUEST OF THE GOVERNOR
02/07/05 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS
02/07/05 (H) RES, FIN
02/09/05 (H) RES AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 124
02/09/05 (H) Heard & Held
02/09/05 (H) MINUTE(RES)
02/14/05 (H) RES AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 124
02/14/05 (H) Heard & Held
02/14/05 (H) MINUTE(RES)
02/16/05 (H) RES AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 124
WITNESS REGISTER
TONY IZZO, President
ENSTAR Natural Gas Company (ENSTAR)
Anchorage, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Presented information on ENSTAR's operations
and natural gas price predictions for the future.
JIM POUND, Staff
to Representative Jay Ramras
Alaska State Legislature
Juneau, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Presented HB 107 on behalf of Representative
Ramras, sponsor.
MYRL THOMPSON
Susitna Valley, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in opposition to HB 130.
JIM BRENNAN
Warm Springs Bay, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in opposition to HB 130.
CHRISTINE LUNDSTEDT
Sitka and Baranof Warm Springs, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in opposition to HB 130.
MELINDA HOFSTAD
Warm Springs Bay, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in opposition to HB 130.
ALBERT HOFSTAD, Commercial Fisherman
Warm Springs Bay, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in opposition to HB 130.
JIM SLATER, Engineer and Commercial Fisherman
Pelican, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in opposition to HB 130.
CAROL MARTINEZ
Mitkof Island
Petersburg, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in opposition to HB 130.
MIKE SALLEE, Sawmill Operator
Ketchikan, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in opposition to HB 130.
JENNIFER PRICE
Sitka and Warm Spring Bay, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in opposition to HB 130.
JOHN HIRSCHENREIDER
Warm Springs Bay, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in opposition to HB 130.
ROBERT LOEFFLER, Director
Division of Mining, Land and Water
Department of Natural Resources (DNR)
Juneau, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Answered questions regarding HB 130.
BILL BURTON, Co-Owner
Kodiak Game Ranch at Narrow Cape
Kodiak, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in opposition to HB 130.
ACTION NARRATIVE
CO-CHAIR RALPH SAMUELS called the House Resources Standing
Committee meeting to order at 1:05:39 PM. Representatives
LeDoux, Elkins, Crawford, Kapsner, Ramras, Samuels, Seaton,
Olson, and Gatto were present at the call to order.
SJR 2-ENDORSING ANWR LEASING
CO-CHAIR SAMUELS announced that the first order of business
would be SENATE JOINT RESOLUTION NO. 2 Urging the United States
Congress to pass legislation to open the coastal plain of the
Arctic National Wildlife Refuge, Alaska, to oil and gas
exploration, development, and production.
REPRESENTATIVE GATTO moved to report SJR 2 out of committee with
individual recommendations and the accompanying fiscal notes.
There being no objection, it was so ordered.
^OVERVIEW: ENSTAR Natural Gas Company
1:07:31 PM
TONY IZZO, President, ENSTAR Natural Gas Company, said that
ENSTAR has been in business for 44 years, serving over 300,000
people. He said that ENSTAR has 400 miles of high-pressure
transmission pipeline that the company has owned and operated
for over 40 years. Residential homes comprise 88 percent of
ENSTAR's customers, and the remainder is mostly small commercial
businesses. Natural gas costs consumers in Anchorage $5.11 per
million BTUs, compared with $13.28 per million BTUs for fuel oil
and $26.98 for propane.
Mr. IZZO said he is concerned about gas production declining in
Cook Inlet. Some of the fields are not accessible to utilities,
he said. He noted that the Department of Energy studied the
supply situation in Cook Inlet. In 2012, supply will go below
demand, he noted, although there are small discoveries that may
briefly extend that date.
Mr. IZZO said he asked the Department of Energy to factor out
fields that are not accessible, which then makes demand out pace
supply in 2009. Cook Inlet gas impacts 473,000 people, he
reported, and about one third of the power used in Fairbanks is
generated in Southcentral with Cook Inlet gas.
Mr. IZZO said the cost of gas to producers is $3.93 per thousand
cubic feet. Most of the gas that ENSTAR distributes comes from
Marathon, which costs $3.33 per thousand cubic feet, he added.
He predicted that the gas ENSTAR will be buying in the future
will cost more because it will be a supply and demand market,
instead of a buyer's market. He said that ENSTAR looks for new
gas supplies everyday. He added that the company needs to
proceed as if North Slope gas will never come, even though it
wishes that gas were available today.
CO-CHAIR RAMRAS said he has been told that natural gas in the
ground is worth less than nothing, and it has no value until it
gets to the market. He asked if some small operators have
access to gas but not to the pipes, which inhibits their
motivation to explore.
Mr. IZZO said producers do have problems with access to ENSTAR's
system. "We will be happy to bring on any new supply and move
it for any customer," he said, and he disagreed that there is no
value, because in 2000 he went to all producers and they
wouldn't sell their gas. He supposed that the companies needed
to obtain capital "and get approval from their corporate
headquarters in Houston or wherever - they needed to compete for
returns that they could get elsewhere in the country and in the
world." He added that producers look at openings in the market,
so it might be difficult to invest now for an unknown market in
the future.
CO-CHAIR RAMRAS asked if the pipe that ENSTAR owns is full.
Mr. IZZO said that ENSTAR owns a good portion of the pipe, and
there is excess space, especially in non-winter months.
REPRESENTATIVE GATTO asked what would happen to the price of gas
if a tanker shows up with gas in Cook Inlet.
Mr. IZZO said he didn't know, but theoretically it could drop
the price.
Mr. IZZO told the committee that the DOE gas study put forth
three options for meeting supply. The first, he said, was by
investing more money into Cook Inlet fields and hoping that they
can squeeze out more gas, which is very expensive and
speculative, and it would likely only be a small increase in
supply. The second option is new exploration, but it could cost
up to $6 billion to get the gas, and it is also speculative.
The third option is to "look north," which is his preferred
alternative, he said. A spur line to the North Slope could
access a 500-year supply of gas at a good price, Mr. Izzo noted,
and it could also provide value-added opportunities. He said
his company is also looking at storage options and spur lines.
1:33:58 PM
CO-CHAIR RAMRAS asked Mr. Izzo about the potential value of land
in the Nenana Basin proposed to be transferred to the university
in HB 130.
Mr. IZZO said that Fairbanks has 700 gas customers, and their
gas is liquefied in the Cook Inlet area and trucked north.
Fairbanks is 30 percent colder than Anchorage, so Mr. Izzo said
the market is similar to Southcentral. Alaska has had much
growth based on access to cheap energy, and he believes that
there would be similar growth spurts if there is long-term
access to energy. The potential value to the University will be
great, he concluded.
1:39:40 PM
Mr. IZZO predicts a significant negative impact to Alaska's
economy by 2009 if gas isn't brought from the North Slope soon.
Residents will have to convert to oil systems and then they will
have to pay two and a half times the price of gas. Getting
North Slope gas quickly could be an economic boon, he said.
REPRESENTATIVE GATTO asked what it costs for a building to be
converted from gas to oil.
Mr. IZZO said home conversions would be at least $5,000. It is
his opinion that Alaska may be able to postpone the drop in
supply with new discoveries, but he said that "living from hand
to mouth" is not comfortable, and if we wait until 2020, there
could be economic disaster.
REPRESENTATIVE GATTO asked if there is a backup plan.
Mr. IZZO said that ENSTAR operates as if North Slope gas will
never come. So there are backup options, but from DNR
information there will be upward pressure on price. So "why put
the economy through that type of negative change with prices
rising as supplies decline?" he asked.
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON asked about a plan of going into Homer.
Mr. IZZO said there is a contract in place, but it will be an
independent system.
CO-CHAIR RAMRAS asked if any producers are holding back on gas.
Mr. IZZO said it is difficult for him to know the big picture.
That is why the Department of Energy was asked to gather the
information.
1:46:52 PM
CO-CHAIR RAMRAS asked what the tariff is for trucking natural
gas, and what is involved in vaporizing the gas.
MR. IZZO said the tariff is proprietary information. Prior to
being deregulated the tariff was 50 percent higher than ENSTAR.
Vaporization turbines are used to heat the gas and compress it
and push it out into the system.
1:48:52 PM
HB 107-ATTY FEES: HUNTING/FISHING INTERFERENCE
CO-CHAIR RAMRAS announced that the next order of business would
be HOUSE BILL NO. 107 "An Act providing for the award of full
actual attorney fees and costs to a person aggrieved by unlawful
obstruction or hindrance of hunting, fishing, or viewing of fish
or game; amending Rules 79 and 82, Alaska Rules of Civil
Procedure; and amending Rule 508, Alaska Rules of Appellate
Procedure."
REPRESENTATIVE ELKINS moved to adopt the proposed committee
substitute (CS) for HB 107, Version 24-LS0444\Y, Utermohle,
2/11/05, as a work draft. There being no objection, Version Y
was before the committee.
JIM POUND, Staff to Representative Ramras, noted the change on
page 2, line 20, which allows the prevailing party to be
entitled to reasonable actual attorney fees and costs.
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON said he was going to offer an amendment to
exclude commercial fishermen from HB 107 because he thinks it
could lead to numerous lawsuits between fishermen, since anyone
who receives a citation can be considered unlawful. He said he
is not going to offer an amendment because he wants to protect
fishermen from other kinds of intentional obstruction, but he
wanted to discuss it.
REPRESENTATIVE LEDOUX said she is not concerned, because the
fishermen would still have to prove how much they lost, which
might be difficult.
REPRESENTATIVE ELKINS said he thinks "the potential here for
commercial fishermen to be suing one another is horrendous."
CO-CHAIR RAMRAS said the intent was to protect hunters and
trappers, "and now we seem to be inside of a fishnet." He asked
if Representative Seaton would like to offer a conceptual
amendment.
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON said he wants to protect the fishing
industry without allowing the kind of lawsuits he spoke of
previously. He added that he supports the exemptions of the law
enforcement officials.
REPRESENTATIVE CRAWFORD said that Representative Seaton's
concern is valid, so he suggested keeping commercial fishermen
under Rule 82 of the Alaska Rules of Civil Procedure.
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON said that might be a good suggestion.
REPRESENTATIVE GATTO said he could not get by the words
"reasonable, actual" in the bill because they can be mutually
exclusive.
MR. POUND said that the definition of "intentionally obstruct"
would not be relevant to fishing competition.
2:02:02 PM
REPRESENTATIVE CRAWFORD said the bill also says "hinder," which
will have as much weight at "intentionally obstruct."
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON said that is exactly what a fishermen
wants to do: try to get situated in a superior position.
REPRESENTATIVE LEDOUX said that either person who loses must pay
full attorney fees, so that may eliminate the possibility of
frivolous lawsuits.
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON offered Conceptual Amendment 1:
Section 3;
Insert "Commercial fishing operations will remain
under Rule 82, Alaska Rules of Civil Procedure."
REPRESENTATIVE GATTO made an objection and asked if commercial
hunters should be included.
CO-CHAIR RAMRAS said there is a significant difference between
commercial fishing and commercial hunting.
REPRESENTATIVE GATTO said if a guiding service were to move in
on a competitor, someone might be hindered, and he said it is
worth discussing.
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON explained that lawful competitive
practices will protect those guides, as far as he knows.
REPRESENTATIVE GATTO said he wished a commercial guide were here
to make sure.
MR. POUND said that the committee addressed that issue in
reviving the guide board, and there is existing statute dealing
with guiding.
REPRESENTATIVE ELKINS said he forgot that they discussed that
bill, and he can support the bill with the Amendment 1.
REPRESENTATIVE GATTO withdrew objection.
CO-CHAIR RAMRAS asked whether there was any further objection to
adopting conceptual Amendment 1. There being no objection, it
was so ordered.
REPRESENTATIVE LEDOUX moved to report CSHB 107, Version 24-
LS0444\Y, Utermohle, 2/11/05, out of committee with individual
recommendations and the accompanying fiscal notes.
REPRESENTATIVE GATTO objected to discuss the terms "reasonable"
and "actual." He said he doesn't think the two words can be
combined sensibly.
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON explained that as long as actual attorney
fees were reasonable, the prevailing party will get the full,
actual fees, but it would have to be determined reasonable by
the judge.
REPRESENTATIVE LEDOUX said Representative Seaton is accurate; it
just gives the judge discretion on what is reasonable.
REPRESENTATIVE GATTO asked why not just say reasonable.
REPRESENTATIVE LEDOUX replied that if it just said reasonable it
gives too much leeway to the judge, who might not even take into
account what the fees actually were.
REPRESENTATIVE GATTO said he does not get it and thinks it is a
matter of grammar and not interpretation. Adding actual to
reasonable adds silt to the water, he said.
REPRESENTATIVE LEDOUX suggested the committee ask Legislative
Legal Services.
CO-CHAIR RAMRAS said that the bill will find its way to the
House Judiciary Standing Committee, which can deal with it.
REPRESENTATIVE CRAWFORD suggested the committee get a quick
answer.
The committee took an at-ease from 2:13 PM to 2:21 PM.
2:21:52 PM
MR. POUND stated that he found the terminology in the Alaska
Rules of Civil Procedure: "and shall pay reasonable actual
attorney fees incurred..."
REPRESENTATIVE GATTO withdrew his objection.
REPRESENTATIVE LEDOUX moved to report CSHB 107, Version 24-
LS0444\Y, Utermohle, 2/11/05,, as amended, out of committee with
individual recommendations and the accompanying fiscal notes.
There being no further objection, CSHB 107(RES) was reported
from the House Resources Standing Committee.
HB 130-UNIVERSITY LAND GRANT/STATE FOREST
CO-CHAIR RAMRAS announced that the final order of business would
be HOUSE BILL NO. 130 "An Act granting certain state land to
the University of Alaska and establishing the university
research forest; and providing for an effective date."
MYRL THOMPSON, Susitna Valley, said he has been a victim of
another fast-track bill, and skirting the public process is
problematic. He said he called his community council members
and community leaders regarding HB 130, and across all political
parties only one person had heard that 1,700 acres of land along
Willow Creek and Frying Pan Lake were up for disposal to the
university, and all were concerned. He related a vignette of a
mountain adjacent to lands his family owns in the lower 48.
Developers took the trees, then the topsoil, and then the rock
and gravel. After seven years the mountain was gone, he said.
Mr. Thompson is concerned that the same could happen on HB 130
lands, because there is a very aggressive timber chip company
that is interested in university land. He said that the public
needs to be brought into the process, and "it is a good idea to
go local and check with people before you fast track public
lands into private industry, which is probably what's going to
happen to this. I would rather see you give $5 million a year
in cash to the university and go about public lands in another
way."
2:27:55 PM
JIM BRENNAN, Warm Springs Bay, noted that there are two units in
DNR's area plan that are subsumed by HB 130: the lagoon and a
parcel bordering Baranof Lake. The area plan noted that both
parcels are largely wetland, he said, and even though the lands
were selected by the state from the federal government for
remote settlement, the selection document had noted that land
suitable for development is very limited and should be directed
where the town site community now is, at the head of the bay.
There are numerous, small private parcels in that area, many of
which are still undeveloped, he said.
MR. BRENNAN said that DNR's area plan classifies the units in HB
130 as mini-dispersed recreation, which is defined as
"recreational pursuits that are not site-specific in nature,
such as beach combing, recreational boating, or wildlife
viewing." DNR's management intent is to retain it in state
ownership "to protect the salt lagoon, maintain the natural
resources/scenic values of the parcel and insure continuation of
its use for dispersed recreation." He said he is a third-
generation Alaskan from Southeast, and he has been going to Warm
Springs Bay since he was a kid. "Unique Alaskan places shared
and appreciated by the public the way they are now, should not
be irrevocably given up for some small development in exchange
for what's going to amount to chump change," he said.
2:31:44 PM
CHRISTINE LUNDSTEDT, Sitka and Baranof Warm Springs, expressed
concern that the governor has been working on the university
land transfer for more than a year, and the public is just
becoming aware of it. She said that at the first hearing of HB
130, only "a handful" of people were allowed to testify, and
then during the next hearing each witness was initially given
three minutes, then the committee co-chair changed it to two
minutes. She added that less than half of the hearing time was
devoted to public testimony. She said that "people have taken
time off from their jobs for two days to try to talk, and
couldn't." She added that Joe Beedle and Mary Montgomery were
allowed to "lobby for this give-away. They took up a huge
amount of public time."
CO-CHAIR RAMRAS interposed and said that Ms. Lundstedt was not
getting to her testimony, "which we would appreciate," and that
there are 60 to 80 people that would like to testify.
MS. LUNDSTEDT responded that, "You're taking up my time, I
think, right now." She added that the way the public has been
received has been very much "in line with the legislation
itself, and it was very sad to see that you interrupted person
after person after asking them transparently irrelevant
questions and using up their time." She pointed out to the co-
chair that he is on television and many people have remarked at
how he has been smirking and rolling his eyes during public
testimony. "A lot of people have seen this contempt and
derision, and it has been impossible to ignore," she added.
MS. LUNDSTEDT said that Co-Chair Ramras stated that the public
and local governments are not being short changed on the time
allowed for involvement. She countered that in Petersburg "the
university called from the airport and said they would meet with
residents two hours in advance." She said that HB 130 will
never pass public scrutiny and will "transform our beautiful
Sitka Sound" without Sitka being able to do anything about it.
HB 130 "carves the heart" out of Warm Spring Bay, she said, and
is "in direct defiance" to DNR's area plans. "Joe Beedle talked
around the real issue, here, and that is once the university
gets 270,000 acres...of public land...the university system owns
it [and] does not need to ask anyone's permission to strike
their deals and get cash." She added that any easement given
for the benefit of locals can be vacated as soon as the
university sells its land. The university can meet with local
people if it wants to, but it has no obligation to include the
public in decision-making, she said. Ms. Lundstedt opined that
HB 130 is a terrible way to fund the university. "The public
land transfer will provide one percent of the university's
budget, and our precious public lands are gone forever," she
said.
REPRESENTATIVE CRAWFORD asked about the Lisianski area and
Biorka Island, which he heard was a sea lion pullout and the
marine mammal act won't allow its use.
MS. LUNDSTEDT responded that the city already made its move to
make Middle Island available for the public. People are very
steamed, she said. She added that the university has to say
they want this land, but the land will be hard to sell. Access
and utilities will be difficult, particularly for Biorka and
Middle Islands.
REPRESENTATIVE ELKINS commented that the co-chair has "gone to
length to try to pacify the public in relation to 130, and
they've taken a big step here to continue these hearings, at the
same time to reassess any movement on this legislation until
they can work out some of these problems."
CO-CHAIR RAMRAS said that he will work on his freshman form.
MELINDA HOFSTAD, Warm Springs Bay, said she went to a meeting
last week with representatives from DNR and the university and
was shocked that there is a 267-acre parcel in Warm Springs Bay
that has already been determined to be transferred from public
hands. She said she has been a property owner there for almost
30 years, and it was the first she heard about it. She said
that the DNR representative told the attendees that there had
been no public hearings to determine which lands would be
included in HB 130, "because he only had four months to do his
work and the governor wanted this bill, this session." She
added that the majority of the Baranof property is wetland and
steep terrain. DNR has said that the land is unsuitable for
home sites, she said, which seems to be what the university
wants to do with it.
MS. HOFSTAD said that HB 130 has had no public process, and she
requests that the legislation be pulled and that the state start
over with an open public process. She said that Baranof Warm
Springs is in the Sitka Borough, and the Sitka Assembly held an
emergency meeting and unanimously opposed HB 130 because it
knows it could not afford sewer and water systems, schools,
docks, harbors, and fire protection that this type of
development would require. "In the case of Baranof Warm
Springs, you would be taking a century-old historic village of
15.4 private acres and adding an additional 267 acres of
development to it with absolutely no input from those of us who
already live here," she said. And she asked the committee to
think about how they would feel if a bureaucracy arbitrarily
increased the size of their community by 18 times without public
input.
2:43:39 PM
ALBERT HOFSTAD, Commercial Fisherman, Warm Springs Bay, said he
has been going to Baranof Warm Springs for 50 years, and he is
worried about the impact of development on the wild stock of
salmon that enters the bay and spawn by the falls and the dock.
He said that the salmon go in and out of the salt lagoon. He
said his main worry is development with drilling and blasting,
which could divert the hot springs.
2:45:14 PM
JIM SLATER, Engineer and Commercial Fisherman, Pelican, said
Pelican will be significantly affected by HB 130. He said he
made his home in Lisianski Inlet for business and because of its
natural beauty and subsistence opportunities, and the proposed
land grant threatens his way of life and his business. He noted
that the amount of land to be transferred is over 1000 acres,
dwarfing the amount of private land now in Lisianski Inlet. The
effect of the land transfer on the environment and the
surrounding communities is overwhelming, unstudied, and unknown,
he said. He added that the local utilities are overloaded and
most of the surrounding subdivisions discharge sewage directly
into the inlet, so he requested a study of any increase in waste
into the inlet. He said that the Northern Southeast Area Plan
went through a public process, and the university will not be
required to stay with that plan. "If you transfer any of this
land out of the public domain without safeguarding the needs of
local communities, I believe it is a failure of your duty as
elected officials," he stated. He said the lands are used for
water supply and subsistence.
CO-CHAIR RAMRAS interjected to ask how Mr. Slater accesses the
land for subsistence uses.
MR. SLATER answered that mostly the national forest comes down
to the shore, but that if people own a lot, they walk onto the
Tongass without trails. Others moor their skiffs to access the
forest. He continued to discuss the parcel in HB 130 on Yakobi
Island, where most of the surrounding land is wilderness. It is
also a boater's refuge from rough weather, he said, and most
local fishing boats sell fish there. "Yakobi Island is premier
wilderness," and the local community has worked hard to protect
it, he said. The mechanism of land grants to fund a university
is antiquated and robs the public of its right to be involved in
the disposal of public assets.
MR. SLATER requested that parcel MF1001 is eliminated from SB
130, and that parcel SP1002 is substantially reduced in size to
be consistent with the community development plan and that it go
through a public process. He also requested that committee
members consider all communities and not just those in their
particular district. He stated that he had written testimony
from Norm Carson, who was not given time to speak previously.
Mr. Slater was denied the opportunity to read it.
2:50:26 PM
CAROL MARTINEZ, Mitkof Island, Petersburg, said her Tlingit
ancestors have lived on Mitkof Island since time immemorial.
"Giving all of these lands for possible private sales, or
whatever UAF intends, would devastate my Native community," she
said. She added that access to native foods for food, art,
culture and teaching children is a necessity to the tribal
heritage. There are less than 400 tribal members in Petersburg,
and "having access to these native foods is imperative."
Subsistence means survival, she said. She added that she just
found out about HB 130 and its fast track, and she is appalled
that the "state government is not taking into heart our best
interests," and she respectfully asked the committee to
reconsider.
2:52:12 PM
MIKE SALLEE, Sawmill Operator, Ketchikan, Alaska, said he was
born in Ketchikan. He expressed unease about how the University
of Alaska logs their lands. He added, "Southeast Alaska has
been coughing up timber at an unsustainable rate for the last 50
plus years through grand-scale harvest...consisting of clear
cuts on federal, state and private lands. Now we are squabbling
over the remote and scattered dregs of commercial timber that is
left."
MR. SALLEE said he objects to both Senator Murkowski's promotion
of giving the university 250,000 acres of federal land and
Governor Murkowski's desire to match that with state land. "If
by some stretch of the law the Murkowski's succeed in pulling
off these land grabs, I would insist on extremely rigid and
binding covenants in perpetuity through all prospective
ownerships that prohibit clear cutting, round log export, and
any other timber extractions exceeding the 10,000 board foot per
year personal use allocation the U.S. Forest Service currently
administers on federal lands." Specifically, Mr. Sallee said,
the Moser Bay parcel is mostly steep ground not suitable for
home sites, and he is "very apprehensive" about developing Wolf
Lakes trail for industrial tourism. He said he was a member of
the Cleveland Users Coalition which opposed road access and
logging on the Cleveland Peninsula. "The Cleveland is one of a
dwindling number of places accessible to local hunters." He
concluded that DNR has not responded adequately to the public's
comments on the Central and Southern Southeast Area Plans, and
it is irresponsible to use HB 130 to avoid addressing the
public's concerns. He added that he does not trust the
university's promise to address public concerns after "the
egregious breach of public trust that occurred here in
Ketchikan" with regard to logging at south Tongass.
2:56:12 PM
JENNIFER PRICE, Sitka and Warm Springs Bay, said she is opposed
to HB 130 because large-scale development will negatively impact
the settlement at Warm Springs Bay. She added that she is
disillusioned by the way this bill was made public. Ms. Price
has a charter business, and she is familiar with many of the
Southeast lands in HB 130, and most of them are "glittering
jewels...which would be negatively transformed by any large-
scale development." She concluded that she hopes that HB 130 is
thrown out.
JOHN HIRSCHENREIDER, Warm Springs Bay, stated that he is opposed
to HB 130 for all reasons previously mentioned. "I would like
you to consider completely canning the bill," he said. "And I
believe that most Alaskans would be in favor of a small income
tax if it was earmarked for the university," which would be more
dependable, he said.
CO-CHAIR RAMRAS asked Mr. Loeffler to update the committee on
how DNR is changing HB 130, "so the folks will feel more
comfortable about this process."
ROBERT LOEFFLER, Director, Division of Mining, Land and Water,
Department of Natural Resources (DNR), Juneau, said DNR is going
through testimony "and we will look at things we can do." He
said, "Examples of parcels being the Kodiak launch parcel,
problems at Neet[s] Bay, some of the public process
questions...of section 6, some of the questions with respect to
borough entitlements that I think the mayor of Craig and some
others discussed, some of the other properties that we've also
heard from, and questions of easements and trails that have not
been reviewed, or that should be reserved out and/or find a
process to do that, and examples of facilities...such as the
watershed or water system at P[ort] Alexander, Point
Protection." He said DNR and the university will continue to
listen to testimony and try to accommodate them.
REPRESENTATIVE CRAWFORD requested that DNR find parcels closer
to population centers of Alaska, like Willow where there is
60,000 acres. He said part of that is suitable for settlement
and it is closer to people and more easily turned into cash.
BILL BURTON, Co-Owner, Kodiak Game Ranch at Narrow Cape, Kodiak,
said HB 130 includes 2,800 acres of the ranch's lease area. He
said the leases keep the land open to the public; without the
leases it would have been in private lands. "If this is taken
by the university it could prevent public access, not only to
the Narrow Cape area but also to the rest of the ranch which
includes...hunting and fishing areas that the public has been
using ever since we've had the place," he said. He noted that
he is opposed to HB 130 unless the university can give both the
borough and the ranch a written agreement that all current land
agreements remain in effect. He added that the ranch may not be
able to renew the lease. He said SB 130 will take the majority
of his livestock winter range, which is absolutely essential to
his operation. He spoke of a fencing contract with DNR, and he
has already bought the fencing. He would need to be reimbursed
for the materials or continue with the signed contract. He said
he is not against the launch complex and he believes in military
research, but he doesn't see where it qualifies the university
to take all that land. He said he would like to see a lease
renewal right written into the bill.
3:05:46 PM
CO-CHAIR RAMRAS suspended public testimony and said that the
university and DNR will work on SB 130. He said, "One of the
wonderful things about living in America and living in Alaska is
access to private land. I think folks are...thinking of tract
homes going into these remote sites; this is about private
people...having access to land slowly in a careful methodical
way over the next 20 years and more, and expanding the ownership
of private lands in Alaska which is a noble effort, but we're
going to be very sensitive to the issues and as they effect
individual communities along the way."
[HB 130 was held over.]
ADJOURNMENT
There being no further business before the committee, the House
Resources Standing Committee meeting was adjourned at 3:06:54
PM.
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